Weekly Docket
Dive into the world of law with 'Weekly Docket,' hosted by Silberman Law Firm's Phil Silberman. Get the latest on landmark cases, practical law, and a unique perspective on the legal landscape. Join us for a weekly exploration of law like you've never heard it before.
Weekly Docket
Shein vs. Temu, Telegram CEO Arrest, Meme Legalities, Emotional Support Animal Laws, and Healthcare Pricing Outrage
Join Phil Silberman and Austin Black in Episode 33 of the ‘Weekly Docket’ as they explore Shein’s intense legal battle against Temu over copyright infringement and trade secret theft. They’ll also dive into the arrest of Telegram’s CEO, Pavel Durov, and its implications for free speech and platform accountability. We also answer legal questions about whether using memes can get you sued and how landlords should handle emotional support animals. Finally, hear a rant on the outrageous cost of healthcare and why transparency is urgently needed to protect consumers. Don’t miss this episode packed with legal insights and engaging discussions!
Welcome to Silberman Law Firm's Weekly Docket, Episode 33, where we talk legal news and practical law. Today is August 29th, 2024, and I'm Phil Silberman, owner of the firm and your host. I'm joined by my co host, Austin Black, who works in our Dallas office. How are you doing today, Mr. Black?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I am doing well. I, finally got my driver's license renewed. It's been expired since of this year. it's very hard to get an appointment at the Department of Motor Vehicles. I don't know why, but I finally got it renewed. Finally got it renewed. So yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:And you were not doing any driving while your license was expired, correct? We
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:driving.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:just want to,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I have a powered pogo stick that doesn't require a license and I was using that to get around the DFLV Metroplex. It was weird when I went, when I showed up to court with that,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I'm glad we established that you are not, driving illegally,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:no.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:on the record, all right. What's on our docket today, Mr. Black?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:we have a lot of stuff about copyrights and trademarks today, which are different things, but we'll talk about what those are, for our legal news section, we're talking about Sheen sues Teemu for copyright infringement and trade secret theft. I'm sure everyone is familiar with both of those companies. If you're not, don't worry, we'll let you know what they are. and then we will be talking about the Telegram. CEO, Pavel Durov being arrested in France on, I think, about 30 different allegations. it's not that great, for him, but, we will go over the implications of that and if you use Telegram, whether you'll be able to continue using it, how that will impact you, we'll let you know. and then on the legal questions section, we will be talking about whether a person or a business can be sued for a meme. specifically using one that has trademarked characters in it, things like that. and do you have to approve an emotional support animal, if it's a Doberman or a grizzly bear? what is the approval process for emotional support animals? If you have five emotional support Dobermans, you just do that? Or do you need to get that approved? And what's the approval process like? We'll let you know. And then finally, our Rant and Rave section. We will be talking about healthcare costs. I think isn't really something we've discussed much here. We've talked about suing healthcare providers for medical malpractice, but never really the cost of healthcare. we'll be talking about that in our rent wave section,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay. It sounds like a good show to prepare for the show. I actually. Was on Sheen's website and then ended up on Timu's website. And then I went on a shopping spree really cheap shoes and clothes. So that was my show preparation. So we'll see if that carries us through the way. let's go ahead and get started. Let's start with our legal news section. And we are talking about Sheen and Timu. And. do you know much about these sites? I just used the Timu for the first time to buy some shoes. And have you ever bought anything on Either of them before Austin?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I have, is team A dropshipping?
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:No. Timu is basically the Chinese Amazon, right? you have a bunch of sellers on there and you can buy stuff and it gets delivered to your house. and Sheen is all about selling fast fashion. Are you familiar with the term fat? Have you heard about fast fashion? Do you guys think about.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:the term fast fashion. Yes, I have.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay, do you know what the term dead white man's clothes means? You ever heard that term?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I'm assuming it means. That you shop on eBay for old people's clothes that are getting sold after they've died.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:let me tell you about this. Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I've done that. So
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:what I would assume it would apply to. Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:No, let me tell you about, and I did not know this until recently, but fast fashion for our listeners out there that don't know is the idea that you're buying just really cheap, disposable clothes. And Americans, we are addicted to fast fashion and we're buying all these disposable clothes and they're basically like junk clothes. And people that know something about fabrics and design, they can take a garment and explain why. That is a, that garment is a low quality garment and now that's over my capabilities, but just take my word that in America, we're obsessed with the fast fashion. We're buying all these cheap clothes. And this started like in the 1960s and the 1970s. And Austin, do you ever throw away clothes? Do you ever just go into your closet and just put them on? You just don't, you haven't worn it in a while. You clean out your closet and you go. Throw away your stuff.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:usually donate them to Goodwill.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay, so when you're don't, you think you're doing a good thing. All right, you're going to the goodwill or sometimes you ever see those little metal boxes all over urban areas, you stick them in there. You think you're doing a good thing by putting the, the clothes in those and they get donated. Let me tell you where they actually go. They all go. Most of it goes to Africa. And Africa started getting tons of these disposable like junk clothes and that, that sounds like a good idea because you think about people in Africa being poor to third countries. Austin, you think they'd appreciate the clothes, right?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I, this is the very first time I'm hearing of this.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:if they are junk clothes, I don't know why they would want them there unless they just literally don't have anything else.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:look, I'm I don't want to sound naive, but I imagined everybody in Africa like running around, like not having food, not having clothing, not having shelter and, maybe they just don't have anything to wear. And I thought this would be a really great thing that we put all of our clothes in those boxes. And they go to Africa and then the Africans get clothes and we feel good about donating our clothes, but I actually watched a documentary on it. And it turns out that this started in Ghana and the 1960s. And at first I think the people from Ghana were appreciative of the clothes and they didn't know where they were coming from, but they knew they were from Western countries. So they had an African or a God, I don't know what the language they speak in Ghana is. I'm going to assume gone in, but I don't know. and they had, they had a term, in their dialect for these clothes and they called them dead white man's clothes. And they assumed that all these white people from Europe and America were dying. And when they died, they got their clothes. Yeah. And that's what they're called. So they're still called that to this day and I watched this documentary and, but there, there's now so many of these clothes, these disposable fast fashion clothes. That they have too many. You, they can't sell them. In fact, they're forced to take them have all these markets. and, you'll see like Michael Jordan, Jersey shirts and Nike stuff, and they're just inundated with the stuff and they have too much of it. But the deal is they have to keep taking it because we don't have anywhere else to put it. So we are, we as a country are dumping all of these clothes. On Africa. So it's a cycle. I'm setting this up. Okay. The cycle is all of this stuff gets made in countries, usually Asian countries like Thailand or China or
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Spain is one of the biggest manufacturers. Zara is credited with almost starting fast fashion,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Spanish company, but
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:But is it? But is it getting made in Spain? I doubt it.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I think most of it is actually getting manufactured in these Asian countries. So the Asian countries manufacture it. And the idea behind Timu Was all right. Instead of, selling it to Costco or Costco would be insulted by that. But instead of selling it to, putting on an Amazon or other US retailers, Temu was like, we'll cut out the middleman, we'll put it all of these Chinese sellers, we'll put it on Temu, and then people like you and me can go on Temu. And buy all these things directly. I just did that. I had never done that because, you know, my problems, right? Like I've got this vineyard vine shirt on this. This shirt costs like probably a hundred dollars. It's crazy. And I'm only allowed to wear these shirts or my wife gets embarrassed. If I go around the Memorial area, I go there. If I don't have something nice on, it's embarrassing to her, but I think it's a huge rip off. So I try to get away with shopping at Costco and things like that without her noticing. So what I just did to prepare for the show is I went on Timu and by the way, I tried to go to Sheen and we're going to get to the legal component of this, these dead white man's clothes in a moment,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Sheen is suing Timu, Timu alleging Timu has been infringing on their copyright and their trademark. And one of the allegations was that, Timu is basically ripping off the Sheen logo and confusing people when they go to search, and then you're being directed to Timu's site when you really meant to go to Sheen's site. And that's exactly what I just did. I tried to search for Sheen, got, sent into Timu. I didn't even know I was on Timu until I was already in the cart, the check, the checkout, right?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Interesting.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:and that's the, as since we've done a lot of trademark, the standard of trademark is, likelihood of consumer confusion.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:that's like a case in point of me being confused as the consumer try to go to Sheen, end up to Timu. to me, that preparation for the show. is very much worth it. And it proved that, I was confused. Now, am I going to fool my wife? Is my wife going to be confused? I hope so. Because I just ordered like what I did. You ever heard of Peter Millar? Okay. Well, all right, Austin, you're really showing, your true colors here. because
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:My true colors!
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:you're true. You're true. Peter Millar. If Austin, if you are like any kind of bougie or you made a little bit of money in places like Memorial in Houston or park cities in Dallas, or, fill in the blank wherever you are, you make a little bit of money. You want to fit in Austin, you have to get like 150 Peter Miller shirt. And yeah, it's a trend. It's a trend. You go to Peter Miller.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:to.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:You have to have it. if you're not wearing Peter Miller to,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:okay, but to be fair though, this is coming from the person who thought Garnier Fructose was a luxury hair product brand.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay. Was that me? This is, are you.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:That was you! That was you!
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. Okay. I don't pretend to be a proponent of these things, but
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I, so what I did, and this is I, my wife does not listen to the show. Okay. So I think I'm safe here, but I'm going to let the listeners. No, I went to Peter Malar's website and I looked at all the shoes, Peter Malar's footwear and then I had that on 1 monitor to my right. And then on my other monitor, I had Timu's website up
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:enough, when I typed in men's casual dress shoes, they were all like knockoffs or imitations of Peter Millar. So I looked for the shoe that like looks most like the Peter Millar footwear. And instead of paying 295 on Peter Millar's website, I ordered like three of them for 19 bucks on Timu's website each. And I'm hoping that between the three pair that I ordered, I can get one to fit right and one to trick my wife to make her think it's an expensive shoe. you know, my wife, do you think she's going to be tricked?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:don't know. I think it'll be easier, for people just out in public if, at first, if they know what Peter Millar is like me, I don't know. I would just be like, that's a nice
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:a nice shoe from the way that it looks. If it looks similar to a nice shoe, then I probably assume it's a nice shoe. I don't know.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah. That's what I'm hoping. That's what I'm hoping. But in six months after the shoe wears out because it's junk. Now the Peter Millar shoe may be junk too. We don't know. For all we know, they're being made in the same factory. We don't know. Which just one is a Peter Millar label. Now, I'm not saying that for certain, so I don't want to get a Peter Millar lawsuit to the firm. but I don't know, but it could be made in the same factory. So I, I'm going to, in six months, there's going to be probably like an African person wearing my shoe after I donate it.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:and just to get this out of the way, just because something there's no perception in the U S
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:something says made in China that it's low quality,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:that's just definitely not true,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:there are a lot of knockoff products that are low quality made in
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:but just because it has that tag on it does not mean that it is lower quality.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:No, I mean, you have the perception, but not true. Okay. Now you know who Tim Tebow is, right?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I do know who Tim Tebow is. I had him on my fantasy football team like two years ago I think,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:he wasn't playing, to be clear. I had him on the bench so he would pray for my team
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:You were like the worst fantasy football.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:hey, I beat two people. I
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:that were playing it seriously
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. I've got some, I've got a funny story about Tim Tebow. Okay. So I, the firm actually sponsored an event where Tim Tebow spoke. Okay. and we weren't like the title sponsor. We were like high up there, but not the title sponsor. so I go to the event and I've got a table and Tim Tebow is speaking and Tim Tebow, he seems like a great guy. He's, he's a Christian guy. He does a lot of missionary work. So he's telling this story at this event where he's in Africa and he's doing missionary work over there, doing some good. And he tells this very moving story about how this one African guy wanted to tell him something and, but there was a language barrier. So finally, he got Tim Tebow's, attention. And he showed Tim Tebow this kid who was wearing a Florida Gators Tim Tebow jersey, an African kid. And Tim Tebow took that as like the greatest sign of respect that this kid, got the jersey and loved Tim Tebow. And I was like, I was thinking like, Oh my goodness, this guy's an idiot. The kid doesn't know who you are. He just pulled, like when nobody cared about, after you got out of the NFL or whatever. The jerseys just went into the donation box and it ended up on a boat to Africa and the kid just pulled it out of the fast fashion dump pile. So I felt, I felt bad for Tim because he was like telling that story and not understanding how this works. So I don't,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:even outside of Africa though, like people getting like dumped fast, fast fashion on them, lot of people in Asia will wear like, branding of American sports teams without like, what they are at but like I actually saw someone wearing a Arlington Hat in Seoul, Korea. They had no idea
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:no.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:was
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:They've never,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:what are you doing?
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:they had never seen King of the Hill. they don't know, they don't know anything about our, There I was watching a show and I don't you ever heard of Burma. I think Burma is now Myanmar. Is that correct?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yes,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:how much you know about that country, but I was watching a show and they were,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:there's still a genocide going on there.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay, terrible was going on in that country, but there was a guy riding a motorcycle and he actually had a World War II Nazi motorcycle, like a, no, a Nazi,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:helmet
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:the spike on it. Because that was what he had and he had no idea what it meant, but he was driving around wearing like a nazi helmet. So here's the thing. So let's bring this. So now that our listeners, I think really needed an explanation of fast fashion and what's going on.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:definitely.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:but Sheen and Timu are in like this big fight. Sheen sues Timu. In the U. S. District Court, I think it's actually in U. S. District Court, District of Columbia. They're claiming copyright infringement. Now, tell me if you think this would be copyright infringement, Austin. Timu has all these sellers and they're mostly Chinese people that they're like Amazon sellers, all over the world. Amazon doesn't sell everything. They have like independent sellers. So these Timu sellers, Are encouraged allegedly by Timu to go on Sheen's website and basically create copycat clothes, like clothes that look like whatever is popular selling on Sheen and then sell it on Timu. is that a copyright violation?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Oh, absolutely.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I would
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:think,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I would think it would be a copyright violation, but there's so many of them that it's really hard to go after them.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, I, and the, see, you hit the nail on the head when you got right to the practical elements. I don't think the Chinese sellers really care.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I don't think it's being enforced over there. Now, if she wins this lawsuit and you assist in District of Columbia, there may be some enforcement action, but your idea that this is absolutely copyright infringement is interesting because I don't know that it is right. Because there are lots of, fashionable things out there. And to what point does, a piece of fashion or a garment become like a work of art, right? Like the shirt you have on right now, that's a very nondescript shirt is probably, you probably got it from Shane, but it's,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:got it from Zara.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. Sorry. Sorry. could I not could a team you sell or not? Just look at your shirt and do, a crew cut. Is that true with three buttons?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I think not everything would be, would fall into that would ever be like distinctive enough to where you could actually claim a violation there, but think things like shoes or really distinctive shirts with designs would be more in that realm,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:How much did you pay for your shirt, by the way? Do you remember?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:This shirt, I
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:20. It was on sale.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:20 bucks. Okay. So there's going to, there's going to be somebody from Ghana wearing that shirt in three months,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:either. They're also sitting for trade secret misappropriation. now that's really the idea of a trade secret, just so we're clear in Texas has to be, and this is not going on in Texas, but the law is generally applicable. trade secrets often have to be kept away from the public. They can't be readily discoverable. If you're going to trade, if you're going to claim something as a trade secret,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:the cases, do you ever get cases at our firm where, there's usually a salesman at a company and he's, and he goes to another company or starts his own company and starts selling to the same customer base. And the company calls us up and says, that salesman, stole my trade secrets.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:We're like,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:usually intertwined with non compete situations, because as a part of those non compete, there's always, almost always as consideration for that employee signing that non compete, they say we're going to give you trade secrets, et cetera, things like that. So
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, he, to steal the trade secret, the customer list would have had to been protected. And he has to walk out of the door with it. It can't,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:have a public Google doc that they share on their Twitter and be like, Hey, these are our customers
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:right. And I,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:someone for trade secret misappropriation. Yeah. It
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, the trade secret has to be, there has to be some effort, of keeping, keeping it secret. So I don't know how that works with when you have your garment designs all over the website on Sheen. I don't know how that's a theft of trade secrets, but that's one of the allegations. Trademark infringement. Now, this is the one we were talking about earlier in the show where I got confused. And it's I tried, I typed in Sheen and I'm like, I'm going to go. It's mostly women's clothing. I was maybe got a men's and that somehow I ended up on team is web suit through a Google search. That if they're using a Sheen logo and tricking me, that absolutely is trademark infringement. You can't do that, right? Like you, you can't be Microsoft. I don't know if my, I think Microsoft does sell some PCs directly. Microsoft can't. bid on Apple's keywords like Apple MacBook and then put a put like an Apple logo and then redirect you to buy like a Microsoft Surface laptop, right?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:That's clear
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:No.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:that's trademark infringement. Okay. if Timu is doing that's absolutely violation. And then you've got this idea of like unfair competition and false advertising. If we're talking about this in Texas, You get a lot of calls on this. We don't really, Texas doesn't really have an unfair competition law or statute. We have something, a concept called passing off or palming off, right? you can't, you ever go to New York. we do it in Houston too. It's in Houston. You ever see the guy on the corner where he, he's got Louis Vuitton bags for 20. Obviously they're not Louis Vuitton bags. And he's palming off the bags as a little bit.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:he is just a good person and
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:give
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:right. Once again, that is the obvious example of palming off. so I don't know how this lawsuit is gonna come out. I think we talked about the, all the actions against Timu. Practically speaking, does Timu care? Not in China, they don't, or how do we enforce it? I think if they're found liable, I think a federal judge could enter an order, similar to what we're doing with Tick Tock, what we can control, you can order like servers and things like that to not host Timu, and you can attack sort of the distribution of Timu if Timu loses this lawsuit, you're going to see, potentially see some of those enforcement actions. Yeah, this is a huge rivalry between the two. And when I was checking out on Timu after I bought my, 3 pair of 17 shoes each, Team who asked me if I wanted to plant a tree to be a good citizen. And I thought,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:being planted?
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:who knows? We and is it being planted? And what kind of tree is it? But I thought that was just incredibly, like ironic, that there's someone, maybe I did a bad thing. now I'm full of guilting about it. I. there's some little kid in South Asia making these shoes so I can buy them for 17 and and then Timu wants to meet a plant, a tree so I can assuage my constant conscience, So
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah, maybe, or maybe that tree is like sort of fruit tree and it'll be the only source of food for that child.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:now I feel better. I feel better. Now you're a good,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:better.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:you're a good lawyer. You made me feel better. I talking about people that, that with conscience problems and maybe who might need to feel better. Let's talk about our next legal news section. This telegram CEO, had you heard a telegram? You ever used it before? Awesome.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:do use telegram. Yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Did you buy your drugs and stuff or what do you do on it?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Not drugs, crypto.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Do you really use it to buy crypto? Okay. so not,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:don't use it so much for that. I have a few people that I talk to on there. but a friend of mine is very active on there and I've invested through him. yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Tell us about Telegram. what is it? Tell us about Pavel Dorov. can you do that for
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:a, chat platform, where the focus in this is my understanding of it. I haven't read this. The focus of it is privacy.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:us? Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:and I think in like encryption on the messages, that sort of stuff, it's very hard to
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:from my understanding, they don't if any government like subpoenas them or anything, they will not disclose anything,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:which obviously means that a lot of people use it for very bad things.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah. And they, I read they had this in encryption where, make Snapchat look like a joke. where they can, you can get on there now. they, the setup for this, and I don't know how to do this. They were like, there's lots of people. It's mostly used in these oppressive countries and in South Asia, and I guess, Russia and maybe North Korea and all of these. clandestine operations that are, trying to fight, these oppressive regimes are using telegram because there's Indian encryption and those governments can't get to the messages and the messages can't be forwarded. And that's the. That's the good that comes from Telegram, right? But the other side of that coin is, as you mentioned, is apparently a lot of people get on there to do really bad things. they sell drugs and guns, and apparently there are all kinds of things, bad things that France is accusing. Pavel Durov of doing and enabling,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:he was recently apprehended. So, detained at an airport. There are some allegations in this against Mr. Durov. I didn't know a lot about this guy, but he had started, he's Russian. He had started a successful. Social media platform in Russia, Putin put some pressure on him to give up, information. He refused, fled Russia, and he started Telegram in like 2013. So, I
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Where did he? Oh, he holds citizenship in multiple countries. But where was his primary residence
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:don't know.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:apprehended in France?
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah, and again, Austin, you're showing your colors. When you get to be that rich, You don't really have a primary place that you live, right? Elon Musk doesn't really live anywhere. So you have a, you might have a base or a residency. That's usually tax friendly, you fly all over. You just go all over the world and you're never one place for too long. You live on your yacht and your jet. and that kind of thing. So yeah, that's, I'm glad I could educate you. I feel like I'm educating you a lot today and in, in clothes and
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:like it.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah. So he was arrested. what do you think? you think that if you run a platform and you're not engaging in these illegal activities, do you think you can be held accountable for the stuff going on your platform?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I do not think you should be able to be held accountable for them.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:the one perpetuating it, but for instance, okay, for instance, yes, Telegram is used for, A lot of illegal things, but also Facebook Messenger is too. and you don't see the French authorities attempting to arrest Mark Zuckerberg. and I know that those are like different proportionalities and telegram is more frequently used for those things, but I think it gets a little bit strange when hold the maker of a tool for what the people using the tool are doing with it.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah. Yeah. And this is the whole, we talked about this on the show, this is the whole communications decency act thing where a lot of these platforms like Google, they're not held liable for what the users are doing. They're they get protection behind that. I'm not a fan of that act. I think there is, there should be some accountability. I think your operative phrase was, I don't remember if you said there, if they're not doing anything, they're not perpetuating it, they're not enabling it.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:certainly we talked in previous shows about how Meta's platforms like Instagram or Facebook would target, target youth, to, to encourage them to stay on platforms to maybe, get if a young person, had did some searches related to some sort of dark suicidal thoughts, then the algorithms would basically, Give them more of that content. I, I think that's something that just being that's goes beyond just being an innocent platform and an innocent bystander.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Or what Texas recently sued them for, right? The facial recognition stuff
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:consent, right? That stuff, it's something that they're actively doing, right? Yes, they should be held accountable for that.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Mr. Durr, I was being charged with drug trafficking, hate speech. just all things. There's no precedent that we could find for this kind of thing, at least in the United States. I'm not sure there's precedent for it in France either, but
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:It's just France, man. France is like, over France is like, they're like, we really like the international law, right? Okay. That, that, that's like what the French are doing. That's what they always have done. They like make these rulings themselves in their country. And then when they attempt to enforce them, it doesn't work out super well. cause you know that there's a lawsuit going on right now with JK Rowling,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:no, I didn't know that.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah. So that, there was that boxer. And there were a lot of people on the right who were saying this boxer was trans, right? Now, she's not actually trans, but a lot of people still said she was just for the sensationalism of that, right? and there was something, the biggest controversy was that she was For some reason disqualified the largest, like international boxing, like oversight, like committee because of some gender tests that she did that came back weird and they haven't released results of that test. but she was born female, right? And she was competing as a female, right? but JK Rowling tweeted a lot about that. because of that boxer is suing JK Rowling. We should talk about that in the future show. it's
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:We should, I've heard about this boxer and she was just beating the daylights out of these other women.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:well, s she was, but she's competed for a long time. And loses very frequently. She did well this Olympics. That's true. But she has not like consistently been winning every single thing that she goes up against in the past.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:but the applicability to this situation is that lawsuit was filed into French courts
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. Of all places.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:like alleging like hate speech and all this stuff. It's because French courts are the ones that are the most. Sensitive to these things. And, I, I think rallying does have assets in France. And so that actually could be dangerous to her, but here I would be very surprised if Gerard has many assets in France with his understanding of what their legal system is like. So I don't know what they would do in terms of enforceability. If they're trying to go after him, like on a, on the monetary front.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I, yeah, I guess one thing that they're now in, in he they're in, he's in their custody, they could certainly keep them in a prison somewhere, right? Then you can be a whole Les Miserables episode kind of thing.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:All right, let's go ahead and answer some legal questions. We're talking about memes. We've been talking a lot about memes at the law firm because. our firm we have a lot of lawyers that sort of are of the generation where they use a lot of memes. That's probably just a little bit younger than me to be kind. and they grew up using memes. I did not know what a meme was until I think I had one of the attorneys explain it to me, but I now understand. That a meme, I'm going to mess this up, but I'm just going to try to explain it. Anyway, a meme is some sort of photo or that no, that, you write something on it and it's like a parody is, am I close? Awesome.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:So can be on But it also could just be a phrase right like it's more of an idea than anything else But the definition of it is really amorphous, and I wouldn't try to get into that
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Sounds like something that the French would do.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:yeah
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:we have a definition of a meme from our producer, Aaron. A meme is an image, video, or piece of text that is humorous and widely shared online, often modified by users. That's from Gen Z.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Sure. Yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I guess we're close. All right. I want to know every time.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:good enough. That's what I would, that's the definition I would expect from Gen Z. It's
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. Okay. Good. Every time you guys throw up a meme in the chat space, I always wonder who has the license for that? is Google providing that? Or did you get that like some of, or do you just have a meme directory on your phone or like on your computer where you can just pull them up and
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:usually it's a plugin, right? To whatever chat interface.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay, I had Aaron research it
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:and apparently there are some groups out there that one of them is called Jiffy. And they can,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Oh, wait. I need to stop you for a second there, Phil. Okay.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, Giphy.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:this podcast, we need to use GIF, Giphy.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay. I know what a GIF image G I F J peg. I know all the image.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:It's called a graphical interface format, right?
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:so it should be a hard G,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Harjit. Okay. So it's a Giphy. Okay. All right.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:It's a big debate. It's a big debate, but I am of the hard G persuasion.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:so people are debating this. Okay. all I guess we're going to call it Giphy on the show,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:You're
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:but you've heard of Giphy before, right?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:yes, I have heard and have utilized Giphy,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay, there's lots of them out there, and that's where these things come from. And I, we don't think that Google and Microsoft and Android and iOS are officially licensing these things, although they might, but we don't know for certain. So Austin, when you throw up a meme with a photo with a caption, it may have been created by some other, user, and you're throwing it up there. And, I'll give you an example. Like I saw a minion, you guys put a minions one in there, and it had some sort of. Some sort of, phrase or something on it. And I thought, who, minions is, is that a Warner? I don't think Warner.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:just as a side note, so the usage of memes, yes, is more millennial, but if you use a Minions meme,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:is specifically very Boomer, but go on,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. I didn't see boomers. Don't know how to use memes, period. So some of this,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:no. They know how to use minions memes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay. I started freaking out because like, how do we have the, who has the licensing for this stuff?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:huh.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:And this is, it turns out this is the way it works. Nobody really has the licensing. It's made by random people. It goes into Giphy's collection. Somehow Android, somehow iOS gets a hold of it. Somehow it ends up in my firm chat space. That's what we've settled on. But it doesn't mean that you can use it without repercussions. Because if you can violate, you can violate things. If you just throw up, if you just throw up a meme, it's not necessarily a fair use. So the idea is, okay, the, all this minion stuff, all these movies, all of these, we've got something about a grumpy cat here. These are all copyrighted type of things. And you don't get to just use. People's copyrights and say that it's automatically a fair use. A fair use is something where you have this original copyright holder and then you, and then the fair use doctrine says, you're using it without permission, obviously, but it's for purposes of like criticism or parody or comment or news reporting. teaching Scott. So like when we talk about something on the show, we're providing a legal commentary that is clearly a fair use. I'm not sure every time you throw up a minions meme, Austin, you're not a boomer, whatever memes you throw up. I don't know if you have a favorite name. I'm not certain every time you throw up a meme, that's necessarily a fair use. And I, now, is anyone going to sue Austin Black? I don't know. Probably not. is anyone going to sue all your friends using memes? Probably not. But I think the listeners need to know.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:so Phil, you'll like this though. Um, like usually GIFs, are pretty short, right? Like
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Right.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:a few seconds loop, right? but they can be very long if you make them right? And there was someone I knew. Who made a gif of the entire bee movie.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:That has become.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:it was just really fast. It was super fast, but it was the entire bee movie. It lasted about 30 seconds.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. And that's a perfect example. There's also some urban myth out there that the shorter it is, the more likely it is to be a fair use. Actually, not true. You can't just take seven or 10 seconds of a song of a Taylor Swift song and say I was really short. that's a fair use It doesn't work like that, people.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I would think most of the time that companies would want. for the free marketing, right?
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:that, that's an excellent point. You don't, you're not seeing a lot of prosecution in this arena because the company's it's the company's best day. When their product gets picked up as a viral type of thing. And then people go rent minions Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:like the Deadpool, like Deadpool, movie, the Deadpool movie had, Channing Tatum. Okay. spoiler alert for anyone who has not seen Deadpool three, but the, the double three movie has Channing Tatum playing gambit. And he has this very, unintelligible Cajun accent, in the movie. And like him doing that accent has become a very prevalent meme recently. And it's going all over the place and Disney does not care. It's great marketing for them. That's what So yeah.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, I want to, I have a friend of mine who used to be the president of the Astros and I think he, it wasn't, I'm not sure. I don't know if I would say he got fired or how that worked, but he was no longer, he's no longer the president of the Astros. And I remember actually when I first met him, someone was talking about, oh, you're gonna get down to the stadium. And I was like, oh, what is it you do for the Astros? And I didn't know who he was. And he was the president. I'm like, oh, that's a small deal. But anyway, I asked him, I'm not going to say his name, but I was like, Bill. Do you guys know that all those little leagues, they use the Astros, and do you guys license that to the little league associations? And he was like, no. And I'm like, so technically it's a licensing violation. And he was like, obviously he laughed and he said, that's just something we're not in the business of enforcing. It'd be really bad for the Oscars or the Rangers to go out there and, Bust up a bunch of little leagues for using their train would not be, would not be a good thing.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I don't
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:um, this just goes on forever. I, they, I, this has been such a busy show Because everyone kept adding to this and saying, Austin, they wanted us to talk about all of these things.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Uh,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I guess we have to talk about grumpy cat. there's some cat out there that looks really grumpy. The cat has, is not really You know, expressing any feelings of grumpiness, the cat face just looks grumpy, and it's part of a meme and the cat got sued. Some company used the cat meme and got popped.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:cat didn't get sued. The cat's owner sued
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:for using the cat's image beyond their, there was an agreed license that they had with the company. They used it beyond that, that agreed license, and they got a judgment for 710, 000.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:That would make me a really grumpy cat. All right. That would, that's it. The idea is people be careful with those memes. We have to talk about one more, I think, cause it's really popular. Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:is recent and is relevant, unlike Grumpy Cat, which is not really relevant right now.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Austin, I got to ask you, what does the word that I'm going to show my ignorance, what does the word demure mean? what is the dictionary definition of demure? Do we know?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I think it's like, innocent, reserved, respectful, like that sort of thing. submissive, right? But, those would all be words that I think are close synonyms. Yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:let's look at a dictionary definition here. Yes. Austin, you're amazing. It's an adjective reserved, modest, and shy, typically used of a woman. Okay. All right. That, I guess that's how it's being used here. I saw some TikTok user and I don't, I think it was a lady. You can never be sure nowadays.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:no, it's a, it is a trans, woman,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Now I feel great. Now I feel gross, but look, it Jules LeBron, no relation to LeBron James, although that LeBron's a first name.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:of.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:okay. First name versus last name. I don't know. That's probably a stage name. She just, do we call her a she?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:I'm, whatever, we can use whatever.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. she said what? tell us. Ah, I,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:demure, very mindful. It's a meme that has been going around a lot. it's used in context, like just as a joke. Like saying, see how I'm writing this brief, and I don't use curse words for opposing counsel? Very demure. Very mindful, right? Like that's how it goes,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:I see. Okay.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:yeah. Okay. So it's like things like that. It's a joke. because people don't, as you. Said earlier, you didn't even know the definition of the word. People don't use the word demure right now,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:No.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:it's archaic language in our modern discourse. And so it's funny that people are using it. And this person was the one to popularize it on Tik TOK. She wanted to start. selling merchandise with that phrase on it, but did not trademark the phrase. Instead, a random guy living in Washington state trademarked the phrase first. And so she would potentially have issues if she makes merchandise with that phrase on it and tries to sell it if this guy attempts to enforce his trademark against her. I think she would have success in the, in my understanding of trademark law, because it'd be really easy to show that she was really the first one
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yes. Yes. And that, that, that's an important, we need to talk about that real quick, Austin, before we go on, because we did this piece, the same legal concept with You remember Jelly Roll? Jelly Roll is a country music singer. Jelly Roll alleges he used the term jelly roll and doing some gigs performances. Jelly Roll got sued by a band, I think out of Philadelphia named Jelly Roll.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Oh, wedding band.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Wedding band.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah. and the,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:not on the finger wedding band with drums.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yes. and the wedding band trademarked it with the federal government first, but Jelly Roll's alleging that he used it under common law. It is,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:common law. just put it, into out there in the public first. And therefore his rights. should be superior to the filed rights. So what Austin is saying is very important. this person, Jules LeBron. She was clearly the first one to use it in some sort of TikTok episode or TikTok segment piece, whatever you call them, TikToks. they, she was the first one to use it. So she should have superior rights. I saw a TikTok where she's like crying and crying. Oh my goodness. I didn't, I just didn't think about it. And I, pick up the phone, call a good trademark attorney, challenge the application and get your rights to that thing. Now, I don't know if it's worth anything, right? I don't know if it's worth anything or not, but it's not going to be around for long, the 15 minutes of, very demure, very mindful. I don't think I saw Austin. I saw the CEO. I think I saw the CEO of Mercedes use it. I think the CEO. It was, did you see that? And it's
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Everyone's been using it. It is, it blew up. Yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, all I think the takeaway on this is the, if you're out there and you've got a trademark and you're using it, and even though you didn't file it, you could still have rights to that trademark. And I saw an interview I saw an interview by a trademark attorney and I think he missed that So like the guy they were interviewing is like the worst trademark attorney in the world for not even mentioning that. All right, what do you, what you want to say?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:was gonna say while, yes, all that's right. What we've been saying about this person's, to that trademark, even though they didn't file it. practically though, it can be difficult, right? if they don't have the resources. To litigate for that trademark, right? And the other person does, could be in a really tough situation, right? Because the person in Washington, I guarantee you has the resources to litigate for that trademark, right? If they filed it, they, because this person said they didn't have the money to file for the trademark, right? And if they don't have the money to file for the trademark, they'd have to find some attorney willing to do this on like a contingency basis. And finding trademark attorneys on a contingency basis is just. Hard, from my understanding. I don't know.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:it's hard to find them. we do a little bit of trademark law. And I think that gives people a clear understanding of just, you don't have to file to have trademark rights. we got to get onto our next legal question. I had a realtor hit, hit me up and she, she has a client, a landlord, and she's really upset and the landlord's really upset because they had A person with a Doberman. Now, Austin, we need to be careful about this because we have a Doberman lover that works at the firm, and I'm not sure if she listens to the show, but if she does. Yeah, she is a pretty tough lady and I'm just going to say she could injure us. So let's be careful about this.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Dobermans. Dobermans are fine.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:She, that lady at our firm adopts and houses Dobermans and rescues them. I think Dobermans are considered an aggressive breed. All right, so someone with a Doberman wants to apply to a house in Texas, and the landlord wanted to say no, no way, that's against our pet policy. And lo and behold, they bring out the no, it's not a pet, it's an emotional support animal. Are you familiar with this area of law, Austin?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Unfortunately, yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay. Okay. then for our listeners, the, when you're applying to housing, it's not the a DA, it's not the Americans with Disabilities Act that governs. This is about the Fair Housing Act and it set. There's also Section 5 0 4. Of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, So we're talking about assistance animals and as they're with assistance animals, they're the big kind of category. And within assistance animals, you have regular assistance animals, like if you're blind or visually impaired, if blind is offensive nowadays. You may need a seeing eye dog and that's certainly an assistance animal. And then you, these other kind of animals, Austin, emotional support animals, that's if you just might have an anxiety attack and you need to pet a dog.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:yes, that's right.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:We never, I've been in property management, been in real estate for a very long time. we had no idea what emotional support animal was. 10 years ago, five years ago, whatever it was, 70, they just came out of nowhere. guess the world finally got, they got so liberal and everyone got so, I don't know what to call it, in, in touch with their feelings that all of a sudden emotional support animals come up. so you have this emotional support. What do you think Austin is the landlord allowed to deny you loved over it? let's say it was,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:love Dobermans. No, I don't love them, but I don't typically hear
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:just attacking people for no
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:let's say it was a pit bull. Let's say the guy wants to apply with a pit bull and he says he's got a pit bull. And it's documented. You have to document these things, but it's not hard to document it. you just go down to Southwest Houston and you get a doctor down there and they'll sign whatever letter you want for an office visit saying that your pitbull is an emotional support animal. Let's say they've got one of those letters and you're the landlord or you're the attorney advising the landlord on a pitbull Austin and the landlord says I really don't want to let this pitbull in my house. what do you tell them? can you deny them?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:No, I don't think you can in that situation. I think you have to allow them now. The Pitbull owner should maybe get a different. Dog because this is, it's a bit of a separate issue, but we talked, I think about dog bite liabilities, right? Hearkening back to that episode,
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:your dog is of a breed that has a propensity to be more dangerous than other ones, you're probably not going to fall into the one bite rule, right? if it's bitten someone in the past, you could be liable for it as the owner. If you have a pimple, or maybe even a Doberman and that dog attacks someone, you're probably just going to be liable straight up at the very beginning.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:known to be dangerous.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah. Yeah. I think unfortunately the answer for this owner is that if a Doberman is applying pit bulls, applying German shepherd, and they have the letter, they have the documentation that it's an emotional support animal. I think the law is not on your side for denying them. now also, what if it's a grizzly bear? What if the guy, what if, What if a doctor signed a letter and said he's got an emotional support grizzly bear?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:first, I would probably go to the, board and report that doctor. second, would not allow that and I would advise the landlord does not have to allow the grizzly in because that would be a violation of local laws.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:and that's a decent answer. That's a decent answer. I'm not beating you up too bad. But remember, all the law, all the time, you've got local city ordinances, you've got state law, and you've got federal law. Those laws conflict with each other all the time. That's how screwed up our legal system is. So let's put aside the city ordinances. for a moment, let's say the guy comes to you with a grizzly bear. And I think the answer here, this hinges on the term reasonable accommodation. The idea is that a landlord has Rules. All right. Policies on animals. And if someone comes to you with an emotional support animal, you have to make the reasonable accommodation and you don't get to ask a whole lot of questions about this because under HIPAA, you can't say now tell me how screwed up you really are. Right? Are you? Are you? Are you really freaking out? do you really need that? You can't landlords out there. You cannot. Ask that question. All right. You cannot ask too much effect without running a file of FHA or HIPAA. Now you don't have to let the grizzly bear in pretty squarely because that's not a reasonable accommodation. Now you do get the other thing that would not be a reasonable combination. So this could help our owner out there is if you've got a Doberman with an, with a history of being violent, a propensity for attacking people. I would say if it's going to be a potential harm for a neighbor, that is not a reasonable accommodation. Now, we need to get, can you ask the question, okay, I'm not asking about your health. I'm not asking, I'm not disputing that you have a health condition and I don't want to get in anything health related under HIPAA. But can you tell me whether, can you tell me whether the dog has ever attacked anybody?
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:And having that disclosure in writing is really important for landlords in this situation because if one of those kinds of dogs, and you should just do it for all of them, right? In this situation, just to not single anyone out, right? Ask the chihuahua if it's ever had a history of attacking people. but if you get that signed and let's say this pit bull actually did have history, but the owner of it doesn't disclose that it'll help you if someone visiting the property gets attacked by that dog and they try to go after the property owner as opposed to the owner of the Doberman because owner of the Doberman may not be very liquid and they know the property owner will be so
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah. and here's the other bad news is you cannot even request a pet deposit for these emotional support because they're not a pet as it is not a pet. It's an assistance animal. So you don't get to charge pet rent. You don't get to ask for a pet deposit. So these, this is a really bad deal. So for my landlords, for my owners out there, I'm not bringing you great news. You could do some things. I think you're pretty much in the clear on a grizzly bear. I think you have to take a Doberman. I think you could probe some of the questions about if they're aggressive or not. But unfortunately, you don't get to get into the breed restriction issues.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:this is one of the few situations where I'm actually sympathetic to landlords. I usually don't have much sympathy there.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Okay, I'm glad we found one. All right, this brings us to our rant and rave section, my favorite part of the show. And this time we're talking about, we're talking about healthcare law. and we were getting into just how crazy, how absolute crazy expensive and screwed up our healthcare system is, and we're talking about transparency. There's been some recent acts of, about, I think in 2020, there was a transparency act and there's some things in the works right now. The idea, Austin, when you go to a hospital, when you go see a doctor, You should know how much that service is going to cost, right? So you,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Within a range. I agree. Yes.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:yeah, so you don't get to, you don't get to go, to, I don't know, go get gas and not know how much a gallon you're paying. And then after you've already put your gas in the car, they said, then that will be, X price, right? The idea is that we need pricing and I've got a story here. I had a kid who, who said his elbow was hurting or something like that. And so I take him to a buddy of mine who's a, he's actually a world renowned, wrist and an elbow and shoulder extremity surgeon and great guy, wonderful doctor. And he said, Phil, let's get an MRI of the kid's elbows. And no problem. And he said, Phil, take them on down to the hospital MRI. And I was like, okay, can I, cause I've been down this road before. Can I go somewhere else? I know now you really want to go to the hospital. Why not? I get down to the hospital MRI and I tell my wife, I know that an MRI, do you know anything about MRIs Austin, they should cost about like, maybe three, four or 500 bucks at most. I tell my wife, I'm like, look, my buddy wants to go down and wants this hospital MRI down, go to the hospital MRI. I said, if it's, I picked out some high number. I said, if it's over 1, 250. walk out of the hospital, just, you're not paying for, we're not paying that for the MRI. And I picked a really high number, like three or four times what I thought it would be worth. Sure enough, she gets down there. My wife calls me, Oh, Phil, the MRI is 1600 bucks. I said, walk out right now. I said, I sent him down the road to an independent MRI place. 450 for the same MRI. So there are some just like crazy markups and abuses going on by hospitals on all of these services. And it's out of, it's out of control. Um, I've got another, story. I, I had my last child about four years ago and we, when you have a child, Austin, you get all these bills. If you ever have a surgery or have a child or whatever, you get so many bills and we have insurance. So you get all these bills and, but then you get these things called EOBs, Explanation of Benefits. And you don't know, and you don't know how much anything costs. The doctor has a bill and then, the anesthesiologist, who's also a doctor may have another bill and then the hospital has a bill. And then there's, you could have 10, 15, and then you're going back. By the time we had our last child, I had, I'm not, exaggerating, we had a stack, four or five inches thick of explanation of benefits. And bills and after the dust settled, after the baby was born and thankfully baby's healthy, no problems. I, after about three, four months after the baby was born, I laid all the bills out on the floor of my home and I tried to put them in order and figure out what the prices were. And I, I couldn't do it. And I'm a relatively, I think I'm a relatively smart guy. And I could not figure this out. I called the hospital. I called the insurance company. I was like, you got to help me. What does this mean? What does this charge mean? What am I paying for? At the end? And I finally was on the phone with them for an hour or two trying to figure it out. And they just said, look, Mr. Solomon, we don't know. the person for the hospital got so frustrated. I don't think she was supposed to say this. I do this every day. We don't really know one. We don't really know how these things work. You got to call you and they like to send you back to the insurance coming on.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:And
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:They don't
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:pretty much of them.
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:right. They don't know what their I couldn't figure out the bills at the end of the day. I just paid it. But it really highlighted what a problem in this country we're having, with transparency.
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:Yeah. mean, medical care just in the U. S. is pretty good. Quality wise, it's good, but in terms of transparency and pricing, it is trash, such trash, like, I had a, um, a, like, procedure done on, like, my foot I moved to Korea. It wasn't done correctly, like, didn't, didn't actually fix the issue. And in Korea, I had, uh, done for a second time properly that time it that procedure cost me 550 in the US and in Korea, it cost me 75 without insurance and I had insurance here This
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:Yeah,
austin_3_08-29-2024_135604:absolutely insane
philip-silberman---------------------------------_3_08-29-2024_135602:there's something that's got to be done. The legislature is trying to do something that, transparency and coverage rule. there's another act that's in the works. Healthcare Price Transparency Act. All of these things are meant to just at least figure out what, You know, what you're, what we're paying for, okay. What is the cost of this thing going to be? And there's been some great movement in that. It's, it still hasn't gone far enough. There's not a lot of enforcement of the law. No one's really enforcing these hospitals to provide transparency. So you're getting very little compliance with that. So, that brings our show to a close. I've been your host Phil Silliman. Austin Black has been my cohost. Like us, follow us, review us wherever you get your podcasts. Nothing in the show is a reminder is meant to be legal advice. And this has all been for entertainment purposes only. If you have a legal question, email us at info at silblawfirm. com. that's S I L B like boy law firm. com Tell us you want that question answered publicly in the podcast and we will do our best. All right, everybody enjoy the rest of your day and have a good weekend.
